The controversy over holiday displays at our state capitol is ratcheting up another notch. The Westboro Baptist Church is asking to display a sign. If you do not know what the Westboro Baptist Church is all about, check out their website at www.godhatesfags.com. (That is not a typo or a joke, but their actual website) This is the same hate-filled group that protests outside of military funerals saying that God wants our troops to die because God hates America. In my opinion, these people are the very worst that America has to offer. I detest them. This is what they say now:
"You'd better watch out, get ready to cry, You'd better go hide, I'm telling you why 'cuz Santa Claus will take you to hell. He is your favorite idol, you worship at his feet, but when you stand before your God He won't help you take the heat. So get this fact straight: you're feeling God's hate, Santa's to blame for the economy's fate, Santa Claus will take you to hell."
This group that cloaks themselves in religion disgusts me. I don't really care how you feel about gay marriage or the war in Iraq. This group spews hate. They certainly don't uphold the belief that you should hate the sin and love the sinner. They hate. That is all they do. God cannot possibly condone their behavior. Now they are attacking Santa Claus.
This whole controversy started when an atheist group posted an anti-religion sign at our capitol building. I was a little surprised at how it gained national attention. Obviously it is time to stop allowing any sort of displays at our capitol.
To the atheists that started this: Congratulations on your success. You have ruined the spirit of love and joy that surrounds the holidays.
To the people of Westboro Baptist: You make me sick. You are terrible people, each and every one of you.
To my Governor, Christine Gregoire: Put a stop to this nonsense. Do not allow our state to become a laughingstock because of atheists from Wisconsin and hate-filled simpletons from Kansas.
13 comments:
Being a Christian, Those clowns from Westboro are the worst of the worst. They are the driving force steers the clowns from Wisconsin; who have the right as American Citizens to Not believe, (Though I Pray for them too) to display the only form of hate that is acceptable today.
They feel that the worship of God is the root of the world's evil rather than the true message, To take care of your fellow man and community.
Plus, being a Sailor ( USN Ret), I disdain the Westboro Baptist Church as a Treasonous group of individuals on the basis that they defile and degrade the solemn observance of our brother's and sisters who gave all so they can spew their brand of rhetoric in a free society.
Nereus
Nereus,
Without a doubt, we are on the same page on our feelings about Westboro Baptist.
I would hate to see pleasant holiday displays come down, but if these hateful ones are going to be allowed up, I would rather see nothing.
I certainly support free speech, but the capitol is not an appropriate forum for these kind of displays. I don't have a problem with non-christian groups putting up a display, but I wish they would refrain from attacking religion. If you don't have somthing nice to say...
In all fairness, did you actually read the message the atheist group put up? It was far from hateful, it was rationally presented and logically worded. The "Christmas" season was celebrated by non-Christian pagans for centuries before the Church co-opted it to bring people into the fold (aligning their holy days to the ones the existed already in the pagan beliefs...thus "Yule" and celebrations of the winter solstice became "Christ's Mass" or "Christmas", Ostara became "Easter", etc.). The atheist group was not preaching hate. Westboro (in the true fashion of their long history of these antics) were. I don't have a problem per se with most Christians, but I don't even like to insult reasonable Christians by calling the Westboro crowd "Christian". They are scum.
(By way of fair disclosure, I'm an atheist/secular humanist, and agree in spirit with the sentiments of the signs they put up, though I'd probably not tried to rain on the Christian's parade, as Christians are so enamored of Christmas and to me it's not only a battle not worth fighting, it's not even a battle...)
Rob,
I honestly don't have a problem with parts of the sign that were put up by the atheist group, but I had a problem with a few specific lines in the message.
I felt as if religion was being attacked with the line:
"Religion is but myth and superstition that hardens hearts and enslaves minds."
Another part that I had a problem with is the line that said (paraphrasing here cuz I don't remember the whole text)
"There is no heaven and no hell, no angels and devils"
If the sign had restrained itself to something along the lines of promoting "Reason" rather than denigrating religion and perhaps a nice symbol to represent the Winter Solstice, I would be fine with that.
I felt that the two lines I talked about denigrate Christianity, and that the Christmas season is the wrong time for that.
Perhaps as an atheist, you are offended by a Nativity scene. I wouldn't understand why someone would feel that way, but perhaps you do. I don't believe in Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny, yet I am not offended by their images even though they commercialize what I consider important holidays and feel no need to tear them down.
Mostly, I felt that the atheists that pushed for this sign are going out of their way to feel offended and the real reason the sign was put up was to bring down religious people. I am a little miffed, but not seriously angry.
I am unhappy because of the consequences of the controversy. I am disgusted by the Westboro Baptist Church. I wish this would not have come up on their radar at all. I guess I am ticked off at the atheist group for bringing this to their attention, even if it was an unintended consequence.
But like all people, I view the world through my own personal prism.
I not a fan of organized religion but I love Christmas. It's a celebration of love, peace, acceptance and generosity toward others. What's not to like? Whether people want to celebrate Saturnalia, Winter Solstice, The Festival Of Lights, Kwanza, the Haj, whatever, at the same time, doesn't bother me. I grew up with it. I love the songs, the decorations, the religious stuff, all of it. Athiests should chill out during Christmas and give big gifts to Planned Parenthood and the ACLU.
Those Westboro guys are pretty amazing, aren't they?
That's a great attitude to take about the holiday season, Reddog.
I'd never suggest getting rid of Christmas, nor do I begrudge anyone's celebration of it. But Christians should no more be offended of presentation of facts around this holiday than atheists should take offense at Christian celebration of their holiday. It was a pagan holiday LONG before the Christians came along, after all.
I honestly wish everyone the best during the holidays, I give to the needy and try to help my fellow man. But I do sometimes get annoyed at the planative cries of a "war on Christmas", a tactic used to scare people by making them think that atheists and those of other religions are trying to "take away" Christmas. As if it would be possible, or even a goal that mainstream atheists or mainstream whatever-theists would seek. Sure, there are militant anti-religion types who might try to denigrate the holiday, but they are in the same category on their side as Westboro is on the Christian side.
However, being an atheist myself, I can tell you that I (and others of my persuasion) deal with persecution and discrimination FROM Christians all the time. It ranges from as "innocent" as the pitying statements of "I'll pray for you", to as bad as having my daughter told in school that she's "going to Hell" (and not just by other kids, which given kids would be understandable despite being annoying). In the military I was at times treated quite badly (mostly by skimmer/shore types, submariners are generally much less uptight about stuff like that). And given that the military is a workplace, I had to deal with Christian prayers being forced on me at every official function (change of command, ship christening/commissioning, retirement/commissioning/promotion/awards ceremonies, sub ball, Navy ball). But somehow I was the "bad guy" for simply not being interested in religion or believing in it...why did I have to deal with religion in the workplace, especially Christianity (no one ever suggested a Wiccan or Muslim prayer)? My point...I tolerated it, kept my peace, and figured it didn't kill me to just "grin and bear it", but this example with the sign show that Christians are, by and large, not willing to do the same when the shoe is on the other foot. That's the part that bothers me about stuff like this...the "holy" crowd is only on their high horse when it's regarding THEIR beliefs. Look at the outrage when Rep. Keith Ellison wanted to swear in a few years ago on a holy book that was NOT the Bible (he's a follower of Islam). Or the flap in North Carolina when a Muslim woman called to testify in court was told that she could swear in on a Bible or nothing, because the court didn't recognize an oath on the Koran (or Torah, for that matter...Jews need not swear in, either). It's only after court action and years of effort that Wiccans can have their symbol on a military headstone in military cemetaries.
In reality, the discrimination is often BY Christians and AGAINST atheists/non-Christians. That is what bugs me. Otherwise, I'm fine just wishing everyone a Happy Holiday/Merry Christmas/Happy Hannukah/whatever.
By the way, Merry Christmas! :)
Are there people that pray at the Sub Ball. All we ever did was drink. Well, some people vomited quite a bit also.
Yeah, the opening prayer (before there was too much time for people to get drunk). :) And of course the worship services...at the altar of the porcelain god :)
Rob, when you say that the statement "I'll pray for you" bothers you, I wonder what context that statement was made in.
If someone said it meaning that they would pray for you to become a Christian, I can certainly understand how that would bother you.
If someone said it in a way that is meant to offer comfort, for example, if you have a relative in the hospital, or something along those lines, does that bother you as well?
In the latter case, I would hope that you would just take it as a heartfelt wish for everything to work out well.
The Sub Ball. Boy, you want to talk about displays that people would find offensive!! Good times, great people, lot's of fun.
Quote: "This is the same hate-filled group that protests outside of military funerals saying that God wants our troops to die because God hates America."
That's just unfucking-believable. I've heard of these rediculous jack asses, actively protesting at military funerals. I've attended such funerals as well. But I've never encountered such a disrespectful and shortsighted organization who would actively trample on a military funeral. Just the thought of exercising one's 1st amendment rights in such a shitty fashion absolutely kills me.
I can tell you that I'd definitely be arrested and charged with assault, fighting and probably public disorder if I heard and saw such a misguided group of individuals trying to interrupt and screw up the services of a military funeral that I was attending.
One of these days, the Westboro Baptist church are going to fuck with the wrong person, and these "anarchists, (or would that be the) anti-christ," will get the everliving shit sued out of them.
I'm generally a little more cheerful during Christmas, but those types of people just piss me off to no end.
Thanks, J.
There just aren't words. Or there are. But I can't formulate them. Some people get so caught up in the cause they're trying to champion, that they forget about their real message somewhere along the way.
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